Rules - Ability Scores and Saving Throws
Duncehack Edition
So who are you?
Just some tosser with an over inflated sense of self importance.
Send verbal abuse via Minds.com
What is the Duncehack?
It emerged from a place of frustration. There's quite a number of areas where 5e could be improved but... it's not going to happen for various reasons.
The Duncehack is my attempt to fix these problems I have. Plan is to go through the whole game - all of it - and homebrew it into the game I think is should have been.
Feel free to disagree with me, but ultimately I think there's no harm in putting my thoughts out there, at the very least if even one DM decides to adopt these rules, then my job is done.
No DM Guild? No OGL Release?
I chafe under binding contracts and both of these are exactly that.
The DM Guild gives you more room to mess with established rules, but basically demands that all be under the service of flagship settings.
The SRD on the other hand gives more room for interesting settings but clamps down extremely hard on what established rules you're allowed to use. Their biggest contention is that they don't want someone to sell a sourcebook that removes the need for core books. Translation: they don't want Pathfinder to happen all over again.
More to the point, both assume money will change hands. I don't want money, I just want Wizards to fix their game.
Groundrules
Groundrules for the Duncehack are as follows:
No Nerfs: the goal is to bring weaker archetypes on the level of the stronger ones.
Remove Traps: incentives built into classes and archetypes should provide an active payoff, rather than be the suboptimal choice.
Frontload Agency, Backend Power: Generally speaking, people like having more options to do things, rather than more raw power. As a design rule: things that feel like core class features, or are defining class mechanics, should happen in the first ten levels, sheer numeric increases in power should come after that.
No money changed hands here
This is a passion project. I want to keep it that way.
I also want to avoid legal issues for self-evident reasons.
No UA?
Too much changes between UA and official release.
The fewer corrections I have the do between UA changes, the better.
Obligatory Natural Crit Plug
Someone else made a thing that lets me make homebrews without having to post them on pastebin or something. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
Obligatory /tg/ Plug
The feedback I got from various Anons on this helped me build it into something that wasn't bad and stupid.
No Images?
Needed to get it under 8mb so I could upload it literally anywhere.
So what is this?
Because everyone keeps arguing over these things, and how/when to use them. Figured expanding on them was in order.
Ability Scores
And Saving Throws
The starting foundation of the game (well, arguably after race/class, but I digress).
Strength
It is the ability to move someone or something through physical force.
It is the ability to also resist being moved by someone or something through physical force.
Swing the heavy thing, literally swing against the tide, etc. Strength tends towards gross motor function.
When to use the ability check
Raw feats of crude strength: Pushing a boulder out of the way, holding a door shut, breaking stuff.
Strength Saving Throws
When something tries to move you via the exertion of force.
Strength Covers...
- Save vs. Shove
- Save vs. Prone
- Save vs. Restrained
- Save vs. Grappled
Themes Around Strength Saves
- Physical Force
- Wind (e.g. gale force winds)
- Water (e.g. crashing waves)
Dexterity
It is the ability to affect someone or something through speed or precision.
It is the ability to, through that speed or precision, avoid being affected by someone or something.
Dexterity covers: Agility, Adroitness, and Accuracy in one combined trait. Dexterity tends towards fine motor function.
When to use the ability check
Feats of nimbleness and coordination: balancing a tightrope, slipping binds, keeping in time (e.g. to music or motion in the environment, etc.)
Dexterity Saving Throws
Dodging. Previous editions called it a Reflex Saving Throw.
Dexterity Covers...
- Save vs. Shove/Prone/Restrain/Grapple
- But only if dodging is a viable escape from the situation at hand.
- Save vs. Explosions/blasts/etc.
- Save vs. Traps
- Some traps may use other saves but they are the notable exception, not the rule.
Themes Around Dexterity Saves
- Blasts and Explosions (e.g. taking cover)
- Escaping via limberness
- Outright dodging
But what about Athletics/Acrobatics/etc.?
Lets stick to Athletics for this example.
Athletics is more trained, specific uses of strength. Think about it more in terms of sports, especially track and field - anything where some kind of skill or training can be put on display.
A Strength Check is the opposite: There is no skill or training to display. If it helps, a good example is: pushing a bookcase onto the door to keep the zombies out.
So whenever a conflict comes up of "Can I roll Acrobatics for this?" or similar, ask yourself: Does this skill check actually require training, or can any idiot do this task without hurting themselves?
If it's the latter, use the Skill Check.
But What about Proficiencies?
The elephant in the room that ruins the system. The fact of the matter is, a lot of DMs simply don't use ability score checks for a genuinely good reason: It utterly tanks the PCs ability to pass the check at hand (that proficiency bonus matters).
Here's a couple optional rules to deal with this. I am aware all of these are an indirect nerf to wrathful smite but you can handle that by changing it to 'checks made against this spell do not benefit from proficiency modifier' if it's sacred cow for you (personally, it should be a saving throw anyway).
Option One: All Ability Scores are Proficient
Under this rule, all characters are proficient in base Ability Score Checks (i.e. not skill checks).
This can have the negative consequence of having players try and constantly 'default' to the ability score check. A good way of contending with this is to allow it with a giant asterisk every time: "The skill check will always yield better or more reliable results than the ability score check". E.g. defaulted deception checks always result in flimsy lies that fall apart under any real scrutiny.
Option Two: Ability Score Proficiency is Saving Throw Proficiency
Under this option, The Ability Score proficiency and the Saving Throw Proficiency are the same thing.
Simple, and keeps some variety if Option One is a concern.
Option Three: One from Background, One from Race, One of the PC's choice.
This requires some effort as you'll have to decide for all races and backgrounds what proficiency they provide. Don't hold your breath for me to handle this, as I'm biased towards Option One.
Constitution
It is the ability to endure - whatever that may mean.
This can be from within, such as poisons, or from without, such as the biting cold. Either way, Consitution is the measure of how much punishment the body can withstand. Constitution tends toward autonomous body processes, such as the immune system.
When to use the ability check
Feats of hardiness: hold your liquor, tolerate pain, hold your lunch.
Constitution Saving Throws
Resillience against the things that would wear away at your body, usually the things you can't do much directly about - extreme cold, disease, etc.
Previous editions called it a Fortitude Saving Throw.
Constitution Covers...
- Save vs. Harsh environmental conditions
- Save vs. Poison
- Save vs. Disease and Infection
- Save vs. Fatigue and Exhaustion
Themes Around Consitution Saves
- All the myriad ways you can wind up with something inside your body that's clearly killing you.
Intelligence
Intelligence measures how quickly you can learn and how readily you can reason.
Intelligence tends toward abstract concepts and 'academic' subjects; logical processes and experimental thought.
When to use the ability check
Feats of calculation and reason: discerning hidden meanings, making logical deductions, remembering small details under stress.
Intelligence Saving Throws
Presence of mind.
Intelligence Covers...
- Save vs. Illusions
- Save vs. Psionics
- Save vs. Impaired judgement (e.g. thinking clearly through a spiked drink).
Themes Around Intelligence Saves
- Grounding in reality
- Clarity of mind
- Power of thought
Wisdom
Wisdom is a measure of practical knowledge and lessons learnt from experience.
In a more, higher minded academic conception, wisdom can also be stated as 'frames of reference' - the specific breed of knowledge that anchors abstract ideas into concrete reality (e.g. an intelligent character might work out a novel design for a water wheel, but it's the wise character who realises why it's unfeasable).
Wisdom tends toward skills that can't be conventionally taught and are best (or can only be) learnt via trial and error.
When to use the ability check
Feats of perception or intuition.
Wisdom Saving Throws
Willpower and Resolve. Was called Will Saving Throws in previous editions.
Wisdom Covers...
- Save vs. Frightened
- Save vs. Charmed
- Save vs. Infringement on free will (sanctuary, 'taunt' effects like compelled duel, etc.)
Themes Around Wisdom Saves
- Impediments on free will
- Effects on Morale and Sanity
- Bravery
Charisma
Force of personality. It measures how you carry yourself and how people notice you for it. It's how self-assured you are in your conduct and demeanour - people are more likely to trust someone who comes across like they believe the words they say.
When to use the ability check
Charisma is the catch-all for ostensibly social skills.
Charisma Saving Throws
Self-assertion.
Charisma Covers...
- Save vs. Possession
- Save vs. Planar Travel
- Save vs. Social effects (attacks on reputation, attempts to socially alienate, etc.)
Themes Around Charisma Saves
- Impediments on sense of self.
- Asserting one's identity.
- Composure in the face of social pressure.
Generation Systems
Different ways of handling Ability Scores at Character Creation.
Point Buy
So the basic standard is:
- All ability scores start at 8, this is the minimum.
- You get 27 build points to spend.
- Each increase in ability points costs one build point. Increases to the 14th or 15th ability score point costs two build points instead.
- The maximum an ability score can go at Character Creation is 15 (before racial bonuses are factored in).
Simple enough, but can be tweaked if you need.
Baseline Power
You can scale up or down the expected power level of any given table by simply changing the number of build points allowed.
Anything between about 22-36 is workable, with 25-31 being reasonable.
Generally though, you don't want to give too many more points without considering...
Ability Score Minimum/Maximum Limits
Anyone from previous editions immediately noticed how constrained these are. While the trade off was that Point Buy was now standard, a decent chunk of people just used the numbers and limits they were accostomed to in the version of point buy they used/rulehacked into the game.
If you're wondering why the widest limits are 3-18, its because those are the limits of 3d6 - the intended system the original version was built for in older editions.
- The minimum limits can be set anywhere between 3-8.
- The maximum limits can be set anywhere between 15-18.
- All ability scores begin at 10.
- Each point an ability score is increased by costs a number of build points equal to the Ability Score Modifier (minimum 1). e.g. Increasing Strength from 17 to 18 costs 4 build points.
- Each point an ability score is reduced by returns a number of build points equal to the Ability Score Modifier (minimum 1). e.g. Reducing Strength from 4 to 3 refunds 4 build points.
It's up to the DM to constrain these limits within reason. If you don't want your Barbarian to tank their mental stats to 3 each to get 18 in each of their physical ones, then don't set the minimums so low.
Arrays
Arrays are just pregenerated stat blocks, and the only choice is in which stat the number is plugged into. I won't dictate to you these ones because honestly, no matter what six numbers you decide upon, if you decide every player is bound by them, then they're all on equal footing.
Standard Arrays
These are the three arrays listed out in the PHB.
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8
13, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12
Rolling
The standard rolling system is 3d6, though often 4d6 drop the lowest is used.
Couple things:
- Any Variation of dice can be used, but try to keep it to a maximum of 18 or 20 - 3d6 is old reliable for a reason, it has the 'nicest' probability (might have something to do with the system originally being built specifically with that in mind).
- In 'drop lowest' systems, every die added increases the average - Which means that if you want more powerful players, you can have them roll and drop two or even three to give them higher average scores, without giving them higher maximums.
Below isn't an exhaustive list, but it is a comparison between a couple of different methods. d8s weren't used because 2d8s have a max of 16 (and 3 have a max of 24). d12s weren't used because... well, that should be obvious.
If you want a 'better' way of handling it and you're mixing die types to get there you're probably already using https://anydice.com/ anyway and I'm not going to say anything you don't already know.
| Dice | Min | Max | Avg. |
|---|---|---|---|
| 3d6 | 3 | 18 | 10/11 |
| 4d6 (drop lowest) | 3 | 18 | 13 |
| 5d6 (drop two) | 3 | 18 | 14 |
| 5d4 | 5 | 20 | 12/13 |
| 6d4 (drop lowest) | 5 | 20 | 14 |
| 7d4 (drop two) | 5 | 20 | 15 |
| 2d10 | 2 | 20 | 11 |
| 3d10 (drop lowest) | 2 | 20 | 14 |
| 4d10 (drop two) | 2 | 20 | 16 |
Extra Ability Scores
DMG touched on this a bit, the idea of having extra ability scores on the character sheet to represent extra details not necessarily covered by the standard list.
Quick note:
Adding any of these adds an 11 to the standard array, if you're using that.
If it's point buy, you add 3 points to the pool per new ability score.
Honour
The first of the two DMG additions, Honour is essentially a measure of adherence to a rigid code of conduct or honour.
Monsters who need to make an honour check just use Charisma instead.
Raising and lowering
The DMG recommends that instead of raising it normally, it's adjusted by one depending on if the character properly adhered to (or didn't) that code of honour.
When to use the ability check
Navigating the incracacies of the honour code, so proper ettiquite, calculating people's standing, using that honour to influence people, etc.
Honour Saving Throws
Saving face.
Honour Covers...
- Save vs. Being Shamed by Another
- Save vs. Breaches of conduct
- Save vs. Attacks on your reputation
Themes Around Honour Saves
- Similar to Charisma, but with an added layer of societal expectations and face-saving heaped in on top of it.
But can't Charisma do this?
Admittedly it does feel different to Charisma, but yeah, it can. The main difference is that Charisma doesn't track societal perceptions from others around you.
A dedicated reputation system might function far better, but at the very least, as an ability score it is a very quick and dirty approach and can be applied very easily.
Sanity
The other of the two DMG additions, Sanity is essentially a measure of rationality and mental coherence.
When to use the ability check
Trying to comprehend the extreme (violence, depravity, etc.) or the unknown (things that are alien to your understanding of the world).
Sanity Saving Throws
Being stung by the extreme, the unknown, or extreme helplessness and isolation (e.g. being possessed by a ghost).
Sanity Covers...
- Save vs. Extreme Stress
- Save vs. Loss of autonomy (prisoner in one's own body)
- Save vs. The Unknown (e.g. eldritch horrors).
Themes Around Sanity Saves
- Similar to Wisdom, Intelligence (at least, when it comes to illusion magic) or Charisma (at least, when it comes to possession).
This differs from the DMG description...
Yeah but the DMG description was also just a dot point listing of Lovecraftian tropes and 'shatter the psyche' type descriptions. I'm pretty sure confrontations with any of the outsiders (Fae, Celestials, Fiends, etc.) can be just as nasty to one's sanity, but I digress.
Fortune
Luck, basically.
When to use the ability check
When the situation at hand is purely a matter of luck (looting a body, or entering a lottery).
Fortune Saving Throws
The only thing that can save you is pure good luck (e.g. having a fall from a lethal height broken)
Luck Covers...
- Basically anything that you cannot justify for another ability score, but still need to make the roll.
Themes Around Luck Saves
- Coinciences, happenstance, serendipity and karma.
Optional: Lucky Replacement
As a replacement for the Lucky Feat, this ability score can also be used to handle Luck points.
- You have a number of Luck points equal to your Fortune ability score. These function as per the Lucky Feat.
- If you have a negative ability score, then the DM has a number of Misfortune points they can use against you instead (refreshing every long rest).
The Story Behind this?
I wish I knew. I know I'm partly to blame for it making the rounds, but I'm not the only one.
I'm not sold on the use of lucky happenstance as a roll, I'm much more inclined towards using Inspiration for this and having it as a limited resource rather than something that can be rolled whenever (as it happens I've already built rules on gaining inspiration more often and to use it for narrative control like this).
Lucky Replacement?
It's there as an option as I know a lot of people don't like the Lucky feat. Again, I'm more inclined towards letting Inspiration handle this personally.
Why I dislike Honour Ability Score
Honour isn't just a social code, or an agreed upon set of principles laid down as peer pressure, it can be these things, but these are very surface level analyses.
It's not that I think Honour is a bad thing to include, quite the contrary, it makes perfect sense for a Hobgoblin to be heavily concerned with it. I just don't think an ability score is the right place.
Honour, fundamentally, is an entire worldview laid down as acted upon principles (in the same way Alignment is) - one that isn't universal (for reference, most of Western Society doesn't function on Honour).
A better way of handling Honour?
You can leverage more out of the mental skills (especially Insight), use it just as much for matters of protocol and conduct, which is half of what it is.
The other half, which is as a reputation counter? I'll have a proper writeup on this elsewhere but for now:
Reputation can be handled seperately per faction. I'd base the starting values it off Charisma + Another Ability Score (to indicate what that culture values. An academic circle would value Intelligence, while a Barbarian tribe would value Strength). This base value would determine first impressions with any faction. If a character belongs to a corresponding background, triple it that score if is their home faction, or double it for a friendly faction.
Reputation caps at 100, with the value earning different levels of favour trading access (for easy comparison: every 10 points has people willing to perform the equivalent of a spell level for you, with a cantrip at 10, a 1st level spell at 20, and so on). When you call upon a favour, you need to either clear the debt, or wait an appropriate amount of time to not appear 'needy' to ask for that favour again. Gaining reputation requires doing favours for others and so gets progressively harder the higher the rating.
Factions each have their own codes of conduct, some in deeply entrenched codes of honour, and will remove reputation from characters for infractions upon that code.
Why I dislike Sanity Ability Score
To put bluntly, define 'Sanity'. That's not meant to be flippant. Really what the word describes Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma kind of already team up to reflect.
A better way of handling Sanity?
One alternative is to use the sanity system from Out of the Abyss but it's too much like exhaustion and I'm not a fan of exhaustion anyway.
Lets use a HP system. We'll call it Stress.
Why the change in nomenclature? Well, it's more appropriate to what the system is meant to convey. Sane people under immense stress can still crack and act in ways that seem to be absolute madness. Insane people under no stress can get through their day without bringing attention to the ways in which they might... differ from those around them.
I'll have a full writeup on this elsewhere, but for now:
- You have a number of Strain Dice (Stress hit dice) equal to your character level. Strain dice can be spent during a long rest to regain Stress Points.
- The die type of these dice is d12.
- You begin the game with 12+Intelligence Modifier max Stress Points, gaining 7+Intelligence Modifier Stress Points per level (or, a d12 roll per level).
- When you suffer stress, the DM rolls it as damage (1d4 to 1d12, +0 to +5. If it's personal to the character, half damage on a successful save).
- Extended rests (24 hours worth of downtime) restore half max strain dice.
- Rests otherwise do not restore Stress, the only way to restore Stress is via spending Strain dice.
- When the character reaches 0 Stress points, the character reduces their Strain Die type down by one (e.g. if d12, then to d10) and restores their Stress points to maximum based off this new number (i.e. reducing their stress points by 1+1/level).
- The die type of Strain dice can be restored with one year's worth of down time for each die type.
- Whenever a character reaches 0 Stress Points, they Crack. The player can choose one of three responses to the stress: fleeing (use the turn undead rules), freezing (use the paralyzed condition), or fighting (the DM controls the character and unloads everything they can - which includes spell slots and rage uses - until the cause of the stress is dead/destroyed; collateral damage is not a concern).
- A character may continue after reducing their Strain die from d4, however this reduces to nothing, and so they can no longer recover Stress. A character who Cracks one final time is lost one way or another and will never recover.
Most sources of incoming stress damage would be a Wisdom or Charisma saving throw:
- Being Possessed/not in control of your own actions
- Being helpless and isolated
- Extreme violence and cruelty (as in, far beyond what adventurers would experience/inflict).
Catastrophic failures in pursuit of goals, bonds, etc.
Why Intelligence Modifier?
First: because much of the saving throws are already Wisdom and we don't want to turn it into more of a god-stat than it already is.
Second: because while Charisma is more about maintaining yourself from external influence than it is internal clarity (translation: You use Charisma to save against possession, but not illusions).
Third: Because Intelligence otherwise doesn't have any effect on Sanity, and is also too safe a dump stat already.